Yeah, but you realize we don’t apply this logic to other media? I mean Gone With the Wind is pretty racist, but was acceptable for the time, if I go out and buy a DVD of Gone with the wind, it’s going to be the same movie released ages ago, just in some better quality. Same if I look it up on a streaming service or if I buy it on Blu-ray.
I mean if you were remaking Gone With the Wind or Metal Gear Solid then yeah, sure you would probably update elements of it. Kind of like how the modern remake of Birth of a Nation, does not side with the clan, but if I go out and watch the original on a screaming service, it’s still going to be the same fucked up KKK propaganda bullshit.
But for some reason, we feel the need to censor video game re-releases, sometimes not even re-release it, look at Undead and undressed or skullgirls, games that existed for over a decade without controversy, suddenly getting a patch out of nowhere that sensors content to be compatible with today’s sensibilities. Causing fans to be distressed by the fact that the product they paid for is no longer the product they have, and it wasn’t as if you had a new influx of players fully embracing the fact they can now play a version of Skullgirls with weaker Illusions to police brutality or version of Undead and undressed that doesn’t use the word trap.
An argument could also be made that, we cannot get a more Progressive Society if we keep censoring the artwork of the past. After all you can’t know where you’re going if you don’t know where you have been, by pretending that the world is always been this inoffensive Bastion of Tolerance, we actually damage future progress that we could make towards a brighter tomorrow. We should be able to look at old media, and take note of what no longer flies and why these things were problematic.
Because if I’m watching a version of The Rocky Horror Picture Show that doesn’t have the song about being a Sweet Transvestite from transsexual transylvania, then I’m not watching The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
My response was about the “that no one ever complained about” part of your initial comment. That is simply untrue, plenty of people have complained about it since the game was released.
I am also in favor of keeping the original and giving content warnings and relevant info or commentary, as this is the best way to integrate our sometimes troubled past in our future vision.
But I also feel that the word censorship is used very strongly here. The old metal gear solid games are in no way being “undone” or “hidden” by the existence of a new version. I feel that a CRT and a physical controller are also part of the original, is this then also being censored in the new version? Even if it is just a remaster, some decisions will be made to adapt it technically to modern systems, I don’t see why doing the same in terms of some painfully dated content is considered censorship instead of just a new version. Just reducing some of the blatant boob gazing doesn’t retroactively destroy the original Snake Eater in my opinion. But I guess it depends on what you see as a rerelease vs remaster vs remake. If you expect to have the exact original experience that I understand that you don’t want anything changed, but then I also think you’re best of playing the original.
It is interesting that you are telling me to go out and play the original if I want an unchanged version of the game, except that defeats the point of a remaster. A big reason why these remasters are done is simply so that I can play the original game on Modern Hardware without having to go out of my way to track down Legacy Hardware that may be difficult to work fine or go for a very Hefty price, and all without being able to support the company that made the original.
If you censor a product I enjoy in order to get other people in on it, even a little bit, what you are doing is essentially robbing Peter to pay paul, I already liked this game. Why should something I like be taken from me on the off chance that someone who didn’t like it before, might enjoy it now?
Yes a lot of old media is rather dated, but I think we need to have some understanding of things being acceptable for their time, or an understanding that values dissonance is a real thing, and something that was considered Progressive 10 years ago maybe considered offensive now.
Plus, morality is highly subjective, maybe I think having a lot of shots of boobs and asses is great as it creates an environment that strive to be sex positive. Sex positivity being something that is very much a good thing in my own moral compass.
If you are going to sensor new releases of old products, it really should just have a toggle. If you want the original click this button, if you want a version that has been modified to Modern sensibility, push the other button. I feel like that’s the best way to do it. As media preservation is highly important, and we cannot censor the past just because the present disagrees with it.
Yeah, but you realize we don’t apply this logic to other media? I mean Gone With the Wind is pretty racist, but was acceptable for the time, if I go out and buy a DVD of Gone with the wind, it’s going to be the same movie released ages ago, just in some better quality. Same if I look it up on a streaming service or if I buy it on Blu-ray.
I mean if you were remaking Gone With the Wind or Metal Gear Solid then yeah, sure you would probably update elements of it. Kind of like how the modern remake of Birth of a Nation, does not side with the clan, but if I go out and watch the original on a screaming service, it’s still going to be the same fucked up KKK propaganda bullshit.
But for some reason, we feel the need to censor video game re-releases, sometimes not even re-release it, look at Undead and undressed or skullgirls, games that existed for over a decade without controversy, suddenly getting a patch out of nowhere that sensors content to be compatible with today’s sensibilities. Causing fans to be distressed by the fact that the product they paid for is no longer the product they have, and it wasn’t as if you had a new influx of players fully embracing the fact they can now play a version of Skullgirls with weaker Illusions to police brutality or version of Undead and undressed that doesn’t use the word trap.
An argument could also be made that, we cannot get a more Progressive Society if we keep censoring the artwork of the past. After all you can’t know where you’re going if you don’t know where you have been, by pretending that the world is always been this inoffensive Bastion of Tolerance, we actually damage future progress that we could make towards a brighter tomorrow. We should be able to look at old media, and take note of what no longer flies and why these things were problematic.
Because if I’m watching a version of The Rocky Horror Picture Show that doesn’t have the song about being a Sweet Transvestite from transsexual transylvania, then I’m not watching The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Thank you for your very thorough response.
My response was about the “that no one ever complained about” part of your initial comment. That is simply untrue, plenty of people have complained about it since the game was released.
I am also in favor of keeping the original and giving content warnings and relevant info or commentary, as this is the best way to integrate our sometimes troubled past in our future vision.
But I also feel that the word censorship is used very strongly here. The old metal gear solid games are in no way being “undone” or “hidden” by the existence of a new version. I feel that a CRT and a physical controller are also part of the original, is this then also being censored in the new version? Even if it is just a remaster, some decisions will be made to adapt it technically to modern systems, I don’t see why doing the same in terms of some painfully dated content is considered censorship instead of just a new version. Just reducing some of the blatant boob gazing doesn’t retroactively destroy the original Snake Eater in my opinion. But I guess it depends on what you see as a rerelease vs remaster vs remake. If you expect to have the exact original experience that I understand that you don’t want anything changed, but then I also think you’re best of playing the original.
It is interesting that you are telling me to go out and play the original if I want an unchanged version of the game, except that defeats the point of a remaster. A big reason why these remasters are done is simply so that I can play the original game on Modern Hardware without having to go out of my way to track down Legacy Hardware that may be difficult to work fine or go for a very Hefty price, and all without being able to support the company that made the original.
If you censor a product I enjoy in order to get other people in on it, even a little bit, what you are doing is essentially robbing Peter to pay paul, I already liked this game. Why should something I like be taken from me on the off chance that someone who didn’t like it before, might enjoy it now?
Yes a lot of old media is rather dated, but I think we need to have some understanding of things being acceptable for their time, or an understanding that values dissonance is a real thing, and something that was considered Progressive 10 years ago maybe considered offensive now.
Plus, morality is highly subjective, maybe I think having a lot of shots of boobs and asses is great as it creates an environment that strive to be sex positive. Sex positivity being something that is very much a good thing in my own moral compass.
If you are going to sensor new releases of old products, it really should just have a toggle. If you want the original click this button, if you want a version that has been modified to Modern sensibility, push the other button. I feel like that’s the best way to do it. As media preservation is highly important, and we cannot censor the past just because the present disagrees with it.