How do I get a computer?
My neighbors do not make computers.
The next 100 towns over don’t either. (at least not in whole)
Do I go to the computer people in taiwan with a bunch of stuff the engineers and manufacturing technicians need?
How much time would I have to spend to do that?
Wouldn’t it be nice if we agreed on a medium of exchange that represented my labor, fair share, or value to society that I could just send electronically and could be exchanged again locally for what they need specifically?
It sure is the way we lived naturally in small tribes, but that’s not tenable at a certain point and it’s why almost every society that has grown to a sufficient size to make good use of it has invented some form of currency.
Money isn’t the problem, it’s the way it’s used.
Also society is so large there’s no way to have that level of accountability for everyone unless you create some neofascist social credit system.
Well, firstly: people would still make them the way they do now. Some would organize and collect materials, and some would refine and make them into parts that eventually make it into computers. The whole chain would still exist, except now it would be done voluntarily. That’s it. Organized labour does not stop existing once you get rid of money. I’m sure you’ve heard of open source software projects.
Which leads into the second part of my comment: it seems to me that your real fear is that there wouldn’t be volunteers for one or several parts of the chain… at which point I have to ask you to take a step back and think about it is that you want, and what you are defending. If there are no volunteers to do a job in such a society, and the only way to get people to do it is threatening them with poverty and starvation, then it is not a job worth doing if you value human rights and dignity.
You probably didn’t catch because I edited late, but I gave some recommended reading at the end of my previous comment. To those, I’ll add David Graeber’s The Dawn of Everything and Bullshit Jobs.
The logistics just boggle the mind. It’s an interesting concept I do want to explore and will when I have some time to look into it deeper. I think I know what you are saying a little better, I just can’t envision it working in such a global economy that’s required to give people a high quality of life.
Also I don’t think the choice ever should be shit job or starve, I just don’t think you need to eliminate the concept of money or regulated “free markets” to do that. In a rational market system you gain a lot of efficiency by having it steer people to more efficient processes and encourage people to do the difficult or unpleasant things that need done with rewards.
We value similar things we just have different ideas of how you get there.
How do I get a computer? My neighbors do not make computers. The next 100 towns over don’t either. (at least not in whole) Do I go to the computer people in taiwan with a bunch of stuff the engineers and manufacturing technicians need? How much time would I have to spend to do that? Wouldn’t it be nice if we agreed on a medium of exchange that represented my labor, fair share, or value to society that I could just send electronically and could be exchanged again locally for what they need specifically?
It sure is the way we lived naturally in small tribes, but that’s not tenable at a certain point and it’s why almost every society that has grown to a sufficient size to make good use of it has invented some form of currency.
Money isn’t the problem, it’s the way it’s used.
Also society is so large there’s no way to have that level of accountability for everyone unless you create some neofascist social credit system.
Well, firstly: people would still make them the way they do now. Some would organize and collect materials, and some would refine and make them into parts that eventually make it into computers. The whole chain would still exist, except now it would be done voluntarily. That’s it. Organized labour does not stop existing once you get rid of money. I’m sure you’ve heard of open source software projects.
Which leads into the second part of my comment: it seems to me that your real fear is that there wouldn’t be volunteers for one or several parts of the chain… at which point I have to ask you to take a step back and think about it is that you want, and what you are defending. If there are no volunteers to do a job in such a society, and the only way to get people to do it is threatening them with poverty and starvation, then it is not a job worth doing if you value human rights and dignity.
You probably didn’t catch because I edited late, but I gave some recommended reading at the end of my previous comment. To those, I’ll add David Graeber’s The Dawn of Everything and Bullshit Jobs.
The logistics just boggle the mind. It’s an interesting concept I do want to explore and will when I have some time to look into it deeper. I think I know what you are saying a little better, I just can’t envision it working in such a global economy that’s required to give people a high quality of life.
Also I don’t think the choice ever should be shit job or starve, I just don’t think you need to eliminate the concept of money or regulated “free markets” to do that. In a rational market system you gain a lot of efficiency by having it steer people to more efficient processes and encourage people to do the difficult or unpleasant things that need done with rewards.
We value similar things we just have different ideas of how you get there.