In this case it’s more about God being fair and just.
And that description doesn’t at all fit God’s actions in the OT. Although without context and depending on the hermeneutic basis I guess it can look so.
The book of Job is a tale to teach about human nature facing adversity.
The Old Testament literally describes God with such petty human emotions as “jealousy,” and its behavior throughout the OT coincides with that.
If you don’t think that’s true, I urge you to read it again. Yahweh was a narcissistic, genocidal maniac. Literally, the first two commandments are about making sure nobody worships or acknowledges anyone but him. Just reeks of insecurity.
And whatever copium you need to accept the outright cruelty your so called “all -loving” god bestowed upon Job (and his family) in order to what, win a bet with the literal devil?
Fucking awful story with an awful message no matter how you spin it.
I remember feeling like I had to come up with all these little things to convince myself that whatever new aspect of reality i just learned about can still coexist with the claims of Christianity… Don’t miss it.
I went to theology seminary, no need for copium or spin. One of the professors’ favourite book was Job and he talked a lot about it.
That absolutely is not the nature of God in the OT, but explaining it doesn’t fit this medium. I also don’t know/remember any resources I could point you to, sorry.
Lol oh honey… Why not start in Exodus, and then check just about every book of the OT after that. It is like one of the most repeated things in the OT:
5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Ooof, imagine getting that in a text from your jilted ex… No thanks. Talk about petty.
Or did they accidentally replace every “z” with a “j” (even though it was a different language)?
We can get into a debate about theology if you’d like, but I believe based on your previous comment that it would be a mistake for you.
Job is very straightforward, and the message is straightforward. The problem is, the message completely ignores the real world consequences that befell a (supposedly) real man and his real family. We can completely ignore the fact that he was god’s most loyal follower (though it does make it more fucked up)…
I do not stand for a god that would put that kind of injustice onto a group of people just to prove a point to what we’re supposed to consider the most evil entity that has ever existed. Do you not see how absurd that is? You are defending the absolute destruction of a man and his family in order to defend concepts that you cannot even demonstrate are real.
Yes, languages and words and their meanings change with time, both words were once the same.
Job should be read from the perspective that humanity, by choosing to turn away from the source of all life and good, has only death and suffering as its just existence. Every moment that anyone has that is not death and suffering is a gracious gift of love from God. Job even acknowledges that all he had was not his, just loaned from God.
Also would still love to hear about god’s jealousy. Why would I worship a jealous god?
Edit: Nah, never mind. This conversation is over. I’m not going to attempt to rationalize with someone who thinks suffering “is a gracious gift of love from god”. Makes me want to fucking vomit.
Why? We have the gift of life, even as we choose death, we have good things even as we choose to turn away from good, that is a message of pure love, why is it gross?
Satan in this context is not “the most evil entity that has ever existed”, but The Accuser, his objective in the story is to convince God that humans don’t deserve any of the good things He gifts.
God’s point is that He will continue giving us life and good things even as we don’t deserve it.
So god wants everyone to come to know him, but you need a graduate degree and six different levels of context to understand the second book in his collection of books? (i’m referring to Exodus, I know Job isn’t the second book).
And this god is all-powerful
Also, how come it takes so much context to understand Job, but people’s interpretations regarding homosexuality require none? So things only have several layers of complexity when it suits you?
These are 5000 years old stories written down 3000 years ago, some study, of course study of context is necessary.
I agree with your point on homosexuality, it also requires study, that’s a reason today’s Christianity is so sick and away from the message of love from the Bible.
These are 5000 years old stories written down 3000 years ago
You really aren’t doing much to help your case. With this context, can you provide a single piece of evidence to prove that any god exists? Doesn’t even need to be your god (though, that would obviously be the next step)… Any higher power or supernatural anything whatsoever.
After all, as the one making the extraordinary claim, you are the one who must provide the extraordinary evidence. The onus is on you. And “faith” does not fit into my worldview.
In this case it’s more about God being fair and just.
And that description doesn’t at all fit God’s actions in the OT. Although without context and depending on the hermeneutic basis I guess it can look so.
The book of Job is a tale to teach about human nature facing adversity.
The Old Testament literally describes God with such petty human emotions as “jealousy,” and its behavior throughout the OT coincides with that.
If you don’t think that’s true, I urge you to read it again. Yahweh was a narcissistic, genocidal maniac. Literally, the first two commandments are about making sure nobody worships or acknowledges anyone but him. Just reeks of insecurity.
And whatever copium you need to accept the outright cruelty your so called “all -loving” god bestowed upon Job (and his family) in order to what, win a bet with the literal devil?
Fucking awful story with an awful message no matter how you spin it.
I remember feeling like I had to come up with all these little things to convince myself that whatever new aspect of reality i just learned about can still coexist with the claims of Christianity… Don’t miss it.
Zealous not jealous.
I went to theology seminary, no need for copium or spin. One of the professors’ favourite book was Job and he talked a lot about it.
That absolutely is not the nature of God in the OT, but explaining it doesn’t fit this medium. I also don’t know/remember any resources I could point you to, sorry.
Lol oh honey… Why not start in Exodus, and then check just about every book of the OT after that. It is like one of the most repeated things in the OT:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/god_is_a_jealous_god
Ooof, imagine getting that in a text from your jilted ex… No thanks. Talk about petty.
Or did they accidentally replace every “z” with a “j” (even though it was a different language)?
We can get into a debate about theology if you’d like, but I believe based on your previous comment that it would be a mistake for you.
Job is very straightforward, and the message is straightforward. The problem is, the message completely ignores the real world consequences that befell a (supposedly) real man and his real family. We can completely ignore the fact that he was god’s most loyal follower (though it does make it more fucked up)…
I do not stand for a god that would put that kind of injustice onto a group of people just to prove a point to what we’re supposed to consider the most evil entity that has ever existed. Do you not see how absurd that is? You are defending the absolute destruction of a man and his family in order to defend concepts that you cannot even demonstrate are real.
Yes, languages and words and their meanings change with time, both words were once the same.
Job should be read from the perspective that humanity, by choosing to turn away from the source of all life and good, has only death and suffering as its just existence. Every moment that anyone has that is not death and suffering is a gracious gift of love from God. Job even acknowledges that all he had was not his, just loaned from God.
Fucking gross. You’re in a death cult, wake up.
Also would still love to hear about god’s jealousy. Why would I worship a jealous god?
Edit: Nah, never mind. This conversation is over. I’m not going to attempt to rationalize with someone who thinks suffering “is a gracious gift of love from god”. Makes me want to fucking vomit.
You read wrong what I wrote, every moment that is NOT death and suffering is a gift from God.
Just as gross.
Why? We have the gift of life, even as we choose death, we have good things even as we choose to turn away from good, that is a message of pure love, why is it gross?
Satan in this context is not “the most evil entity that has ever existed”, but The Accuser, his objective in the story is to convince God that humans don’t deserve any of the good things He gifts.
God’s point is that He will continue giving us life and good things even as we don’t deserve it.
So god wants everyone to come to know him, but you need a graduate degree and six different levels of context to understand the second book in his collection of books? (i’m referring to Exodus, I know Job isn’t the second book).
And this god is all-powerful
Also, how come it takes so much context to understand Job, but people’s interpretations regarding homosexuality require none? So things only have several layers of complexity when it suits you?
These are 5000 years old stories written down 3000 years ago, some study, of course study of context is necessary.
I agree with your point on homosexuality, it also requires study, that’s a reason today’s Christianity is so sick and away from the message of love from the Bible.
You really aren’t doing much to help your case. With this context, can you provide a single piece of evidence to prove that any god exists? Doesn’t even need to be your god (though, that would obviously be the next step)… Any higher power or supernatural anything whatsoever.
After all, as the one making the extraordinary claim, you are the one who must provide the extraordinary evidence. The onus is on you. And “faith” does not fit into my worldview.