You are assuming that all non steam deck handhelds are going to be better than the steamdeck performance wise. While this may be the case with the ROG Ally I don’t think it holds true with all handhelds so there is possibility for a hand-held with less performance than the steamdeck to be verified
It’s 100% true of all Windows handhelds released after the OG Steam Deck, yes. This is not because the Deck is bad, it’s because they all are running the same two or three APUs, all built on the same AMD architecture. If it came after the Deck, it’s a 6800U with a 780M or slightly better than that, and no new handhelds going forward will launch with anything significantly worse than that.
So beyond retroactive support for first-gen AyaNeo or GPD handhelds that are older than the Deck, I don’t think this is a major concern. And if you’re on one of those, which were incredibly expensive at launch compared to the Deck, I think you should be pretty well used to underwhelming performance by the time SteamOS verifies them, if ever.
It’s really not a realistic scenario. Our floor for performance is well established and this is coming so far down the line that we shouldn’t expect to return to it at this point.
The GPD Win 4 is roughly the size of a thick PSVita and that ran on a 6800U as well and they released newer ones all the way up to 8800U without increasing the size. Ditto for the Ayaneo Flip, which is still chunky but it’s clamshell, so I guess you could cargo pants it.
Ayaneo also makes the Air, which is supposed to be exactly that, and I think there is a model that targets a smaller APU and is super thin, but the next in line already jumps to the 7840U and is comparable to the Deck. I have to imagine that even small PC handhelds will match that performance going forward.
There are pocketable handhelds out there, but they’re generally Android-based, which makes a lot more sense. I think for PC we’ll see people trying to hit this level of performance in a compact form factor, but I’d be shocked if people tried to go back to sub-6800 performance on PC on new devices.
Again, the point of the Deck is standardized performance, and it quickly became exactly that. Things will get messier once the Deck is replaced by a higher spec, but in the meantime, if it’s certified for baseline Deck you’re either probably fine or in such a tiny niche (you own 5840u version of the AyaNeo Air? Who are you) that you probably know what you can do with it.
Hi. I’m the guy that wants a low-spec model that fits in my pocket. I exist. Just gimme something that can run my favorite 2D indie games and I’m happy.
I bought a Miyoo Mini Plus last year and ended up loving it far more than my Deck, which is actually just gathering dust still. And now I dream of seeing SteamOS in that size.
But nothing you’re describing will fit in that kind of form factor. So if you want to enforce minimum specs, you’re really telling me I can’t have my dream handheld.
To be clear, I’m not advocating to enforcing a minimum spec. I’m saying that there isn’t a need to add a performance rating to a SteamOS certification or to the SteamOS compatibility badges because if they’re all based on Steam Deck performance they will be valid for all the other certified devices by default. At least until a Deck 2 is released.
I love small handhelds. The Retroid Pocket Mini is great (shame about the bad scaling on the screen). But those are typically Android handhelds for a reason. I don’t think a PC handheld in that form factor is worth it. You can just run Linux on ARM and get the form factor without the whole thing running like a hot potato for 15 minutes before it dies. There’s a lot of native ports of small PC indie games in that space and ongoing work for per-game port support, too.
Now, all that could change if the upcoming mobile chips we get are great at running at very low wattages and somehow get amazing power management options on the software side out of nowhere. But… I just don’t think that’s a priority for anybody specifically because ARM chips already have a well established ecosystem to give you basically what you want without having to tie the X64 platform in knots for the sake of running this over Steam instead of Android.
Well, yeah, I get that, but honestly, if you can’t get what you want on that front from a GPD Win 4, an Ayaneo Air S1 or Flip… well, then what you want is better Windows on ARM support. These are still laptop chips we’re cramming into handhelds, it’s not a matter of size vs performance at that point. There’s a reason the Steam Deck is that size.
Honestly, at that point I’d try streaming, which those smaller ARM devices will do just fine. But even that I don’t think is worth it. That’s mobile hardware territory.
I would not be shocked to find that people are willing to go back to sub 6800 performance in exchange for something the size of those Android devices. There are tons of 2D and low spec 3D games that are very popular that they would run, and pocket sized handheld x64 machines are a niche to fill to stand out from the Steam Deck.
You won’t be shocked, though, because like I just told you there is already a couple of those and they didn’t do well, only to be replaced by 7800U variants in the same form factor (plus a tad of battery chonk, perhaps). This is not a hypothetical.
Seriously, man, just read what people are telling you. If somebody is threatening to tase you unless you’re immediately contrarian irrespective of the information being presented to you blink twice and we’ll send someone.
You are assuming that all non steam deck handhelds are going to be better than the steamdeck performance wise. While this may be the case with the ROG Ally I don’t think it holds true with all handhelds so there is possibility for a hand-held with less performance than the steamdeck to be verified
It’s 100% true of all Windows handhelds released after the OG Steam Deck, yes. This is not because the Deck is bad, it’s because they all are running the same two or three APUs, all built on the same AMD architecture. If it came after the Deck, it’s a 6800U with a 780M or slightly better than that, and no new handhelds going forward will launch with anything significantly worse than that.
So beyond retroactive support for first-gen AyaNeo or GPD handhelds that are older than the Deck, I don’t think this is a major concern. And if you’re on one of those, which were incredibly expensive at launch compared to the Deck, I think you should be pretty well used to underwhelming performance by the time SteamOS verifies them, if ever.
It’s really not a realistic scenario. Our floor for performance is well established and this is coming so far down the line that we shouldn’t expect to return to it at this point.
What about someone targeting a handheld spec that actually fits in your pocket? Surely that would be weaker.
Would it?
The GPD Win 4 is roughly the size of a thick PSVita and that ran on a 6800U as well and they released newer ones all the way up to 8800U without increasing the size. Ditto for the Ayaneo Flip, which is still chunky but it’s clamshell, so I guess you could cargo pants it.
Ayaneo also makes the Air, which is supposed to be exactly that, and I think there is a model that targets a smaller APU and is super thin, but the next in line already jumps to the 7840U and is comparable to the Deck. I have to imagine that even small PC handhelds will match that performance going forward.
There are pocketable handhelds out there, but they’re generally Android-based, which makes a lot more sense. I think for PC we’ll see people trying to hit this level of performance in a compact form factor, but I’d be shocked if people tried to go back to sub-6800 performance on PC on new devices.
Again, the point of the Deck is standardized performance, and it quickly became exactly that. Things will get messier once the Deck is replaced by a higher spec, but in the meantime, if it’s certified for baseline Deck you’re either probably fine or in such a tiny niche (you own 5840u version of the AyaNeo Air? Who are you) that you probably know what you can do with it.
Hi. I’m the guy that wants a low-spec model that fits in my pocket. I exist. Just gimme something that can run my favorite 2D indie games and I’m happy.
I bought a Miyoo Mini Plus last year and ended up loving it far more than my Deck, which is actually just gathering dust still. And now I dream of seeing SteamOS in that size.
But nothing you’re describing will fit in that kind of form factor. So if you want to enforce minimum specs, you’re really telling me I can’t have my dream handheld.
To be clear, I’m not advocating to enforcing a minimum spec. I’m saying that there isn’t a need to add a performance rating to a SteamOS certification or to the SteamOS compatibility badges because if they’re all based on Steam Deck performance they will be valid for all the other certified devices by default. At least until a Deck 2 is released.
I love small handhelds. The Retroid Pocket Mini is great (shame about the bad scaling on the screen). But those are typically Android handhelds for a reason. I don’t think a PC handheld in that form factor is worth it. You can just run Linux on ARM and get the form factor without the whole thing running like a hot potato for 15 minutes before it dies. There’s a lot of native ports of small PC indie games in that space and ongoing work for per-game port support, too.
Now, all that could change if the upcoming mobile chips we get are great at running at very low wattages and somehow get amazing power management options on the software side out of nowhere. But… I just don’t think that’s a priority for anybody specifically because ARM chips already have a well established ecosystem to give you basically what you want without having to tie the X64 platform in knots for the sake of running this over Steam instead of Android.
An Android device doesn’t run my Steam library.
I’m aware of Portmaster, but that’s a manual process that is only possible for certain engines. Whereas SteamOS can just run all my games.
Well, yeah, I get that, but honestly, if you can’t get what you want on that front from a GPD Win 4, an Ayaneo Air S1 or Flip… well, then what you want is better Windows on ARM support. These are still laptop chips we’re cramming into handhelds, it’s not a matter of size vs performance at that point. There’s a reason the Steam Deck is that size.
Honestly, at that point I’d try streaming, which those smaller ARM devices will do just fine. But even that I don’t think is worth it. That’s mobile hardware territory.
I absolutely do not want Windows.
I would not be shocked to find that people are willing to go back to sub 6800 performance in exchange for something the size of those Android devices. There are tons of 2D and low spec 3D games that are very popular that they would run, and pocket sized handheld x64 machines are a niche to fill to stand out from the Steam Deck.
You won’t be shocked, though, because like I just told you there is already a couple of those and they didn’t do well, only to be replaced by 7800U variants in the same form factor (plus a tad of battery chonk, perhaps). This is not a hypothetical.
Seriously, man, just read what people are telling you. If somebody is threatening to tase you unless you’re immediately contrarian irrespective of the information being presented to you blink twice and we’ll send someone.
Definitely not with the AYN Loki. So I do see your point.